NJ Tells #NJPatchChat: Our Schools Need Fixing

New Jersey residents—at least some of the ones who found us on Twitter Thursday night—say we need better ways of holding teachers accountable, and we need to support arts and sports in schools.

Those were some of the messages we heard on the first weekly #NJPatchChat, our new statewide Twitter chat on issues of statewide importance, but local impact. Our first topic was The State of Our Schools. We had a small crowd, but many of those who tuned in said the schools are in a sorry state indeed.

Next week's chat will be Thursday, Oct. 21 at 8 p.m. The topic: How much is too much to pay for a ... We'll want to know what you think your police, teachers, full-time elected officials and others are worth. If you've never taken part in a Twitter chat before, instructions are at the bottom of this post.

Below is a transcript of the State of Our Schools #NJPatchChat. Here's the trick: You've got to read from the bottom-up (since Twitter feeds show the most recent posts at the top).

GSGreenBlog @MorrisPatch thank you for doing this #njpatchchat

MorrisPatch See you next week! #njpatchchat

GSGreenBlog @Giovanny_I agreed #njpatchchat  

MorrisPatch Thanks very much to everyone who chimed in. Lots of great feedback. See the transcript on NJ Patch sites tomorrow.#njpatchchat

Giovanny_I @GSGreenBlog this is true.. a balance must be established. #njpatchchat  

MorrisPatch ... and tomorrow, this acct becomes MorrisCtyPatch to make way for our incoming Morris Twp+Plains site! #njpatchchat  

MorrisPatch 2) WEDNESDAY at 7 p.m., we're doing a roundtable on edu issues. Atlanta Bread Co. in Morris Plainshttp://bit.ly/apa8OO #njpatchchat

MorrisPatch 1) We'll be back next week, Thursday at 8 for another chat on nj issues. Suggest topics by e-mailing louis@patch.com#njpatchchat

GSGreenBlog @Giovanny_I if you do that, the ones who are advancing get bored and bad things happen - cater to all levels#njpatchchat

MorrisPatch I think we're pretty much wrapping up ... but a few announcements ... #njpatchchat

Giovanny_I Pub. edu could/should work from the bottom to the top, focusing more attention on the struggling instead of watching them fall. #NjPatchChat  

RidgePatch Fewer unfunded state mandates with lots of paperwork and a financial burden on local schools. #njpatchchat  

MorrisPatch @GSGreenBlog ... but how do you objectively measure how the school is doing? #njpatchchat

GSGreenBlog @MorristownPatch ditto #njpatchchat  

GSGreenBlog @MorrisPatch if it were possible, to be able to focus on the student instead of just the test scores #njpatchchat

MorristownPatch Public education could be/should be continuously open to new ideas. Education is not just tests and books#NJPatchChat

GSGreenBlog @MorristownPatch true, like school lunches can be worked from a county level, but teacher wise and courses...I like local #njpatchchat

MorristownPatch @MorrisPatch Of course. Good journalists can separate their opinions from bare facts. #NJPatchChat

MorrisPatch Last Question, very open: 10. If you could change just one thing about education in NJ, it would be ... ? #njpatchchat

MorrisPatch Disclaimer: Participating Patch editors R speaking for themselves, not their sites when they opine. As journos, they're neutral #njpatchchat

GSGreenBlog the schools need more parental involvement, but that's another topic...focus on the kids, not the taxes #njpatchchat  

itsjustmesue @MorrisPatch @GSGreenBlog it should be based ondifferent things, what "extras" they do (ie coach, class advisor ect)parent input#njpatchchat

MorristownPatch A regional superintendent covering multiple districts could save a lot of money. #NJPatchChat

MorristownPatch @GSGreenBlog @MorrisPatch I think some functions can be regional to save costs. Some things are local, some universal #NJPatchChat

BWaterPatch I agree @GSGreenBlog, local districts know best how to serve the students, and what ideas, funds, etc. would be put to best use #njpatchchat

GSGreenBlog @MorrisPatch nothing is cookie cutter every school has different needs, that would get lost if local control was done away with #njpatchchat

MorristownPatch @RidgePatch I think that's a very good idea. No one should be given tenure for life. Are you listening, Supreme Court?#NJPatchChat

GSGreenBlog @MorrisPatch - no - control is needed locally, we know best what our kids need #njpatchchat

RidgePatch Perhaps tenured teachers could be re-evaluated every 5 years or so.#njpatchchat

MorrisPatch moving to ... Question 9. Would you give up some local control over schools (ie, a regional district) to save on costs?#njpatchchat

GSGreenBlog @MorrisPatch - both and more - happy kids, kids ready for the next grade, engaged students #njpatchchat

GSGreenBlog adding fees is not the answer fixing whats broken u can throw $ at it all day but unless its being used properly nothing changes#njpatchchat

MorrisPatch @GSGreenBlog ... what criteria would you use? Grades? Standardized test performance? #njpatchchat

GSGreenBlog @MorrisPatch tenure needs serious re-evaluation - nothing should be automatic #njpatchchat

shill57 Maybe we could kick in a tad for books , but only if the district is spending responsibly. #njpatchchat.

MorrisPatch Question 8. Does the tenure system make sense in public schools? How can we reward good teachers without propping up bad ones? #njpatchchat

MorrisPatch ... then I guess we're onto Question 8 ... #njpatchchat

shill57 Currently 90 dollars each but not school related. I will pay the school fee when we get there. Pay for our own children.#njpatchchat

MorrisPatch ... no one's got a school finance success story? Smart cuts? Clever spending? Parent support? #njpatchchat

MorrisPatch @shill57 -- how much is your district charging?#njpatchchat  
GSGreenBlog @Giovanny_I - no #njpatchchat

MorrisPatch Question 7: What success stories should school districts emulate? What strategies do you believe in? #njpatchchat

GSGreenBlog @MorrisPatch to to a certain degree #njpatchchat

shill57 I gladly pay for my sons to participate in sports. One plays most of the game, and one is a reserve player. Both happy#njpatchchat

MorrisPatch @Giovanni_I -- the rich would argue we already do (we're journalists, so we wouldn't know firsthand) #njpatchchat

Giovanny_I @MorrisPatch would taking from the rich and giving to the poor work out in a situation like this? #Njpatchchat

GSGreenBlog @MorrisPatch retirees need to remember the opportunities afforded them & should realize good schools drive up home values or #njpatchchat  

MorrisPatch @GSGreenBlog .. we can vote on school budgets (but not others). Do you think that helps w/accountability? #njpatchchat 

MorrisPatch ... maybe something less likely to hit retirees or others on fixed incomes? #njpatchchat?

GSGreenBlog @MorrisPatch no-someone should make sure our tax $ are being allocated properly, adding taxes everywhere won't fix the problem #njpatchchat

shill57 Probably robbed like our pension fund #njpatchchat

Giovanny_I @coachkarlPA never though of P2P that way.. it makes total sense... if high schools can pop warner prices than, why not?#NjPatchChat

MorrisPatch Question 6. Property tax bills are getting unsustainable. Would you increase other taxes (sales, income) to support schools? #njpatchchat

MorrisPatch not much else to say on 5? No one else feels like the media's missing important stories on school cuts? #njpatchchat

GSGreenBlog @MorrisPatch indeed #njpatchchat

RidgePatch Is anyone here old enough to remember all those state tax funds "dedicated" to financing schools in past decades?#njpatchchat

MorrisPatch @gsgreenblog you're talking administrators, we assume? #njpatchchat

GSGreenBlog #njpatchchat -the media isn't talking about how top heavy the budget is and who really needs to be cut

itsjustmesue @RidgePatch do you get a discount fron rec or travel sports on multi children? #njpatchchat

coachkarlPA @MorrisPatch At this point in my career, I'm more of a player advocate than a coach #njpatchchat :P  

MorristownPatch @itsjustmesue good point. I remember Pay2Play meaning something far more nefarious in the political realm.#NJPatchChat

MorrisPatch Question 5: What's the media missing when it comes to cuts? What stories aren't we telling? #njpatchchat

itsjustmesue @coachkarlPA @MorrisPatch it should not be called pay to play it is pay to participate. they still get to practiceand"belong" #njpatchchat

MorrisPatch @coachkarlPA ... we'll assume you have a unique perspective, given the username :) #njpatchchat

RidgePatch Should families with multiple children get a per-child discount for after-school activities. #njpatchchat

coachkarlPA @MorrisPatch #njpatchchat and THAT is a good thing!

coachkarlPA @MorrisPatch #njpatchchat another thought. play-to-pay fees create value in mind of parents, who may demand more accountability from coaches

Giovanny_I Pay2play wld be a smack to the face of the less fortunate. It'll just be another way of showing who has money and who doesn't. #njpatchchat

MorrisPatch @itsjustmesue ...that's a good point. When we look at student activity fees as hardships, are we really putting them in context #njpatchchat

BWaterPatch Bridgewater has accommodations for those who can't afford, and the board of ed had discussed families with many kids in sports #njpatchchat  
itsjustmesue @MorrisPatch depends on the district #njpatchchat

RidgePatch Do you think more volunteers can pick up some of the slack for leading afterschool activities? Is that appropriate?#njpatchchat

coachkarlPA @MorrisPatch #njpatchchat Most Pop Warner leagues here are in the $150/$200 per season range. More than reasonable.

itsjustmesue @MorrisPatch yet i bet all those kids have cellphones.parents and kids could paint lines on fields clean up ect(do extras)#njpatchchat  
CopingWithLife The travel leagues are becoming the youth sports of choice #NJPatchChat

coachkarlPA @MorrisPatch #njpatchchat there needs to be some "scholarship" money for those in need. that's what booster clubs are for.  

MorrisPatch ... and related question. How much is too much to charge kids to play? #njpatchchat?

coachkarlPA @MorrisPatch #njpatchchat yes, they could, but my experience is that football is not quality at the club level; arts, however, are.

MorristownPatch This is where scholarships can play a role. Have pay2play, but offer those who can't pay ways to participate#NJPatchChat

MorrisPatch Washington Twp in Morris, for instance ...http://patch.com/A-Bjy njpatchchat. Or Montville:http://patch.com/A-Cgd #njpatchchat

BWaterPatch The optimist in me wants to say find a way to fund both w/ fundraisers to fund competitions, etc like some clubs in Bridgewater #njpatchchat

MorrisPatch Question 4. Some schools are using activity/sports fees, to spare taxpayers some burden. Fair to students who can't pay? #njpatchchat

Giovanny_I @MorristownPatch getting rid of football frees up a big chunk of funds from these schools. The backlash would be huge though! #njpatchchat

MorrisPatch @itsjustmesue -- you guys are getting good at anticipating our next questions :) #njpatchchat

itsjustmesue @MorrisPatch @MorristownPatch pay to participate can help with that although you can argue you can pay for the arts also #njpatchchat

GSGreenBlog kids will gain life lessons from both-not putting 1 over the other in Morris County NJ we should not have to choose#njpatchchat

MorrisPatch @coachkarlPA but could the sports fall to rec leagues, private groups, etc? #njpatchchat

CopingWithLife What about the impact on the student if sports are cut? Where do they go? For some, it's a savior #NJPatchChat

MorrisPatch @MorristownPatch ... let's not forget, there's an argument sports build character. But they're getting harder to afford ... #njpatchchat

coachkarlPA @MorrisPatch Arts program. Easier to find good non-school arts than football #njpatchchat

itsjustmesue @MorrisPatch football team because the arts bennifit everyone #njpatchchat

MorristownPatch The intellect says get rid of football, but for many, HS football is an institution. #NJPatchChat

MorrisPatch @gsgreenblog ... no prob., real-time twitter chat gets tricky. Just glad to have participants for our first attempt at this :)#njpatchchat

itsjustmesue @MorrisPatch Hopatcong lost that at a HSlevel we do not have ANY middle school after school sports( taht was cut along time ago)#njpatchchat

GSGreenBlog @MorrisPatch - sorry, my reply was to the 1st part - football vs the arts...not sure honestly #njpatchchat

GSGreenBlog #njpatchchat @MorrisPatch I say do research on the subject and see how kids benefit from the arts- taxes will raise regardless

MorrisPatch 3. If push came to shove, what would you rather give up: Arts programs or the football team? #njpatchchat

itsjustmesue @MorrisPatch do you mean jr like HS jv teams or middle school #njpatchchat

BWaterPatch The Bridgewater elementary schools lost extracurriculars and some music programs, plus have pay to play #njpatchchat http://patch.com/A-zgC

MorrisPatch @GSGreenBlog ... what do you say to taxpayers worried about footing the bill for arts? #njpatchchat

MorrisPatch Madison lost jr. athletics (though they MIGHT be saved) http://patch.com/A-BsQ #njpatchchat ...

GSGreenBlog #njpatchchat quality/needed teachers losing their jobs, any classesprograms related to the arts being cut would be bad

MorrisPatch West Morris says it's feeling the impact of chipping away in lots of small ways http://patch.com/A-K6m (oops, forgot the#njpatchchat !)

itsjustmesue @MorrisPatch in my district field hockey, marching band ,golf and teachers lost their jobs because of the budget cuts#njpatchchat

MorrisPatch Some tough one's we've seen: Hopatcong lost a band & several sports http://patch.com/A-B4g. #njpatchchat ...

MorrisPatch Question 2. What's the worst example of cost-cutting you've seen? Or what cut that COULD happen scares you?#njpatchchat

Giovanny_I It seems like the schools of less fortune are being hit worse as opposed to the Wealther Schools, or is it just my imagination#NJPatchChat

MorristownPatch I think a lot of people look at the risk to edu., however, many would hope the same level of edu. can be gained w/o high tax #NJPatchChat  
MorrisPatch @Giovanny_I & @GSGreenBlog. Welcome! We're asking if the taxes or edu cuts are the bigger worry for you@njpatchchat  

GSGreenBlog #njpatchchat definitely the risk to education

Giovanny_I Hey Hey! #NJPatchChat

MorrisPatch follow-up @itsjustmesue -- has your own district (or tax bill) been hit particularly hard? #njpatchchat

GSGreenBlog #NJPatchChat hello

itsjustmesue @MorrisPatch the risk to education #njpatchchat

MorrisPatch @olivetreemusic -- we'll actually be getting to that in one of the upcoming questions. But welcome to the #njpatchchat!

MorrisPatch Question 1: If you're a parent and a taxpayer, what worries you more: The rising bill or the risks to education?#njpatchchat

MorrisPatch OK, let's call that a slow start. But we'll start the questions anyway and see how this goes ... #njpatchchat

StevePatch2 #NJPatchChat Hi!

olivetreemusic #NJPatchChat I don't like how the school budget cuts effect the arts in schools, but parents know how important it is, so business is good!

morrissompatch #njpatchchat hey

CopingWithLife #NJPatchChat Hello hello

BWaterPatch #NJPatchChat Hi everyone!

MorrisPatch OK, so we've got a few Patch editors and some crickets. Anyone else so far? #njpatchchat

itsjustmesue @MorrisPatch hi njpatchchat

MontvillePatch #njpatchchat Hey hey

MorristownPatch #NJPatchChat Hi!

MorrisPatch Can we get a quick informal roll call? IF you've tuned into the discussion, say a quick "hi" and add #njpatchchat to your tweet

MorristownPatch RT @MorrisPatch: Here's how it works: Search twitter for #njPatchchat and watch for our questions. If you want to answer, include njpatchchat in your reply

MorrisPatch Here's how it works: Search twitter for #njPatchchatand watch for our questions. If you want to answer, includenjpatchchat in your reply

BWaterPatch Follow #NJPatchChat, to participate in a Twitter forum to discuss our schools, beginning now! Use #NJPatchChathashtag to participate!

MorrisPatch Here we are! The very first #njpatchchat, brought to you by the http://Patch.com local news sites in NJ. Our topic: The State of NJ Schools

Using #NJPatchChat:

Head to Twitter.com and search for #njpatchchat. If you're new to Twitter, that's what's called a hashtag—a special keyword you can search for to see what people are saying about a certain topic, even if you don't normally follow those people. If you do that Thursday, at 8 p.m., you'll see the conversation live, as it takes place—you'll see our questions and the answers or comments provided by anyone in the online community. If you want to jump in with an answer, question or comment, make a tweet [a Twitter post] using the hashtag yourself.